Saturday, March 8, 2014

Q. Does John 12:39-43 prove trinity?

39 The reason why they were not able to believe is that again Isaiah said:40 “He has blinded their eyes and has made their hearts hard, so that they would not see with their eyes and understand with their hearts and turn around and I heal them.”+ 41 Isaiah said these things because he saw his glory, and he spoke about him.+ 42 All the same, many even of the rulers actually put faith in him,+ but they would not acknowledge him because of the Pharisees, so that they would not be expelled from the synagogue;+ 43 for they loved the glory of men even more than the glory of God

This verse parallels Isaiah 6:5,10


6:5 ................... 

For my eyes have seen the King,
Jehovah of armies himself!

6:10
Make the heart of this people unreceptive,+ Make their ears unresponsive,+ And paste their eyes together,
So that they may not see with their eyes
And hear with their ears,
So that their heart may not understand
And they may not turn back and be healed.”

Sure you can say at this point that yes, This would mean Jesus is Jehovah and therefore the second Almighty person in the trinity. But Nicene creed trinitarians don't even agree that Jah is the Son. So let's further analyze the passage in John. Starting with verses 44-46

However, Jesus called out and said: “Whoever puts faith in me puts faith not only in me but also in him who sent me; 45 and whoever sees me sees also the One who sent me. 46 I have come as a light into the world, so that everyone putting faith in me may not remain in the darkness.


Here we see Jesus say that whoever puts faith in him puts faith in the one who sent him. This can go two different ways. Either Jesus is talking in the third person and he is the One who sent himself, since he he is supposedly God almighty. Or this could mean that Jesus is simply not The Almighty God. As a non-trinitarian I believe Jesus to not be as part of a trinity. Let's see if the bible can support what I say. 

John 12:49,50

For I have not spoken of my own initiative, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment about what to say and what to speak. 50 And I know that his commandment means everlasting life. So whatever I speak, I speak just as the Father has told me.”

Here Jesus said 3 crucial things.
1. I do not speak of my own initiative.
2. The Father(Jah) has given him(Jesus) a commandment
3. The words that come out of my mouth, are the same words the Father has told him

I know Jesus likes to speak vaguely at times. But given the 3 statements he said above, I'm positive that he is not telling us that he had any say in what commandments he teach.

Since Isaiah witnessed Jah's glory and not Jesus', and spoke of Jah's glory and not Jesus'(Isa.-6:5,10), How did the Pharisees and everyone else see God's glory through Jesus? Well let's see what Colossians 1:19 says
 "because God was pleased to have all fullness to dwell in him,"
Isaiah 42:1"Look! My servant, whom I support!
My chosen one, whom I have approved!I have put my spirit in him;""1 Corinthians 1:30
But it is due to him that you are in union with Christ Jesus, who has become to us wisdom from God, also righteousness and sanctification and release by ransom,

So to conclude, Jesus is one of Jehovah's representatives. Jacob didn't wrestle with God, yet he seen God face to face by means of his angel
Genesis 32:24"So Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him till daybreak"
Genesis 32:28"Then the man said, “Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel,e because you have struggled with God and with humans and have overcome."
Genesis 32:30"So Jacob called the place Peniel,f saying, “It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared.”"

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